Author and director Chong Kim discusses grooming and her thoughts on grooming prevention education
Chong and Billy Joe spend 2.5 hours chatting about keeping kids and adults safe
Author and director Chong Kim discusses cyber grooming, internet addiction, and online scams, and shares her thoughts on the virtual reality app, TRAPPED: A VR Detective Story, from Radical Empathy
Parents, this one is for you
Billy Joe and Chong discussed the dangers of internet addiction, particularly in children, and how apps are designed to be addictive. They also highlighted the risks of online grooming, scams, and the need for parents to be vigilant in protecting their children from harmful online content.
Chong spends around 25 minutes going through TRAPPED: A VR Detective Story, and they discuss her thoughts and advice about the app as they complete the interview.
Here is the AI summary of the interview
- Billy Joe and Chong discussed the alarming rise of cybercrime, including the installation of rootkits on phones, hacking through AI bots, and the need for people to be more aware and vigilant. They also touched on the issue of underage sexting and the importance of educating both boys and girls about online grooming. – PLAY @12:08
- Billy Joe and Chong discussed the overwhelming amount of information and education required to navigate technology safely, including the risks of hacking and surveillance. They also mentioned the implementation of kill switches in computers and cars, highlighting the lack of control consumers have over these technological advancements. – PLAY @18:41
- Billy Joe and Chong discussed the dangers of online scams and hacking, particularly targeting vulnerable individuals such as the elderly. They expressed their commitment to educating and raising awareness through various media projects, including movies and online courses, as well as utilizing virtual reality technology for immersive experiences. – PLAY @24:14
- Billy Joe guided Chong through the process of setting up a virtual reality headset, including calibrating the boundary, adjusting the straps, and navigating the menu to start the desired app. – PLAY @29:50
- Chong and Billy Joe discussed the instructions for using an app that involves putting a red dot on yellow objects. Chong initially got confused but eventually figured out that they were supposed to stay at the yellow box until it moved on to the next task. – PLAY @35:34
- – PLAY @1:03:29
- Billy Joe and Chong discussed the challenges of educating people about the issue of trafficking and the need for action to change behavior. They also discussed the importance of visual elements in conveying the grooming aspect of trafficking and the potential impact on parents. – PLAY @1:09:35
- Chong and Billy Joe discussed the complex process of trauma bonding and the challenges faced by parents trying to reintegrate their trafficked children into the family. They highlighted the difficulty of unbrainwashing victims and emphasized the importance of counseling and support for both the survivor and the family. – PLAY @1:16:33
- Billy Joe and Chong discussed the importance of creating a separate product to provide examples of grooming tactics and educate people about its occurrence, regardless of gender or family dynamics. They also mentioned a movie called “Track” that explores the impact of online grooming on a 13-year-old girl and her family. – PLAY @1:21:45
- Chong and Billy Joe discussed the fear and anxiety parents experience when their children are not around, and shared their strategies for keeping their kids safe online, including limiting internet access and using specific phones with restricted features. – PLAY @1:27:43
- Billy Joe and Chong discussed the potential benefits of virtual reality (VR) headsets in raising awareness about human trafficking. They also mentioned the availability of screenshots and resources for promoting and licensing the VR training program. – PLAY @1:33:54
- Billy Joe and Chong discussed the issue of human trafficking in America and the need for education and emotional connection to raise awareness. They also touched on the challenges faced by victims after rescue and the complexities of trauma bonding. – PLAY @1:46:26
- Chong, Billy Joe, and others discussed the challenges faced by survivors of trafficking, including the difficulty of saying no to lucrative opportunities and the long-lasting psychological impact. They also highlighted the need for proper care and defense for survivors who may resort to extreme measures to escape their traffickers. – PLAY @1:52:00
- Billy Joe and Chong discussed the need for educational tools, specifically VR experiences, to teach about various topics such as trauma bonding, labor trafficking, and cultural representation. They expressed the desire to create a distribution network and collaborate with diverse individuals to create impactful content. – PLAY @1:57:49
- Chong and Billy Joe discussed their partnership and collaboration to create educational materials on the topic of trafficking. They planned to incorporate feedback, make adjustments, and explore various mediums such as VR to convey information effectively. – PLAY @2:03:09
- Billy Joe and Chong discussed the potential of using virtual reality (VR) technology to create emotional connections and promote training and education. They also talked about the challenges of getting trainers and executive directors on board with VR and the importance of generating emotional tension in VR experiences. – PLAY @2:09:07
- Chong discusses how certain objects and environments trigger traumatic memories from their past. – WATCH (3 mins)
- Chong and Billy Joe discussed the importance of teaching individuals how to build their own wealth and not rely on the government. They also talked about finding champions who are interested in using VR technology to educate the public about human trafficking and how Chong can help advertise and provide support for this cause. – PLAY @2:17:48
- Chong plans to use pictures and videos to promote a headset for educating about human trafficking. – WATCH (40 secs)
- Chong expresses satisfaction with a prevention tool and rates it highly. – WATCH (40 secs)
- Billy Joe expressed gratitude towards Chong for being a supportive friend, colleague, and activist, acknowledging his hard work and efforts. – PLAY @2:26:50
AI transcript, to make it easy to search online
Chong Kim and Billy Joe Cain conversation about TRAPPED: A VR Detective Story – September 20
VIEW RECORDING – 148 mins (4 mins of highlights)
Chong is referred to as “My Phone 김정란”, below.
@0:00 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
This meeting is being recorded. Okay, I'm not hearing you yet, but I'm sure you're there. Okay, come on little things.
Not yet. Okay, I know I do have audio on my machine. I'm going to join on my phone to see if I can hear myself.
So, not yet. Yeah, I can hear you. Okay. How are you today? Oh, lost you again. You were there for a second.
hold on. looks Yeah, your camera's off, but you're all I want go my tahmyz office for a week, coming back here.
Yeah, a relationship is work. Yes, definitely. It's job, an absolute bunch of work. So, wow, you've got a million things going on all the time.
You're talking about few more hours a day just like me. So, you are stealing some time away and I really appreciate that you're going to spend some time with me.
more than going over to the CR thing.
@1:55 – My Phone 김정란
Yes, I'm excited and I actually should. It was a friend of mine, her name is Dottie Laster. She's an attorney and she and I have worked on cases together.
And one of the things she shared with me, she told, she was rescuing a kid from online grooming. But the kid was not taken, but they were already addicted to the person that they were having a relationship with.
And this is me, I think the age is between 5 to 7 years old. And so when she pulled the phone away from the kid, the kid was storing a violent tantrum.
@2:40 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Wow.
@2:42 – My Phone 김정란
And they did not stop for hours. Hours. And so, you know, I love that you created this VR headset because it's so important for parents to realize the Internet is
It may not sound like cocaine, heroin, meth, opium. But now I tell parents, I want you to take a picture of something that reminds you of the internet.
So they took a picture of their phone. And I said, next to it put opium or cocaine or heroin.
Because that's what it really is. It becomes an addiction. And the withdrawal, it is so much harder than getting off of heroin and cocaine.
mean, I find myself, I even have to check myself. Even when I'm working, I'm looking at my phone. I'm like, hmm, wonder if there's messages.
Even though I was the one that put, do not disturb, you know, status on my phone. I wouldn't get any calls to disrupt me while I'm at work.
But I still find myself reaching. And I'm happy. I tell myself, you know what? I need a break. I need a break.
@4:05 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Yeah, these all of the apps that are on your phone, every one of those things, is designed to get your attention.
Like everything that they do is designed to get your attention. And the apps make money when they re-engage you.
So their business model is addiction. You know? And so every person that has an app on your device, on any device like this, they are basically trying to build an addiction or a habit or whatever you want to call it.
But the thing is that it reminds you, it tries to re-engage you, etc. to be able to throw your phone away, you know, it takes an effort.
And you know, the other thing is that I've learned in this field that when someone gets a certain amount of food,
like when you try to take that away from them, that is a major, major problem.
They are going to be seeking it out just like a drug. I'm not going to sit here any more than you are and try to say that somebody becomes addicted to this like heroin, but the controls in our brain are wired to work a certain way.
And once we've started down on that path, it's like, I want that freedom. I want that information. I want to have access to it.
And when you take it away, so it's like it's so hard as a parent to give somebody access to a smartphone, and then somebody tells you, by the way, that smartphone is horrendously bad for your children when you take it away.
They're like, I'm not going to take it away. They know better because they know they don't have the tenacity for it.
It was hard for my wife and I, we didn't, we wouldn't buy our kids smartphones until they were 16 and 17.
And they, the kids were not happy about that. And their friends didn't understand it at all. And now they come to us and they're like, thank you for not giving us smartphones because we would be just as addicted to them as our friends are.
And I cannot imagine what is happening to the children that are under 10 that have access constantly to the Internet, that are going to happen.
They're going to have problems. I have friends that are addiction specialists and they treat pornography addiction in children that are 10 and younger.
Absolutely. I understand that this thing is, this thing is going to bring pornography into your child's life within hours like it or not.
@6:52 – My Phone 김정란
Yep, because links like Pornhub and other places, they no longer ask if you're a
@7:00 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Joonahhes brief and Because the from sitting there with Dallas and he's like yes no in Austin and he's in their life
Whoa, what are you doing? It turns out that there was a verbal chat feature in the app that was not listed or announced even on the in anything.
So he was busy. A child was busy telling the truth to people that were talking to him and he was just answering questions like, how is that even possible that it wasn't listed as a feature?
And so yeah, we're playing with fire. Absolutely. And are completely clueless and my parent friends that are 100% paying attention were luckily still sitting with the kid right there as they were as they had installed the thing.
And the game had a feature that allowed a predator right there in their room with them while they were sitting with them and they are lucky that they were listening.
@8:54 – My Phone 김정란
What is that?
@8:56 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Anybody?
@8:57 – My Phone 김정란
What is that?
@8:59 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
An app without big man. What We have problems in this industry, really bad problems. And I have, you know, Alicia, she was showing me some telegram stuff the other day.
a little, the number of people that are getting scammed and crypto scams on telegram and what's happened, all that stuff is unbelievable.
And that's all driven by labor trafficking.
@9:23 – My Phone 김정란
Absolutely. had one of my former FBI friends. He, because we always chat through another app called Signal, because when people don't have iPhone, I can send them messages, I can send them pictures and videos and it won't be pixelated.
Well, my friend messaged me on text and it was chatting with you for the past three days. And you've been sending me weird messages.
And I said, I I got a message from you since two weeks ago. I said, was this on signal?
He said, no, it's on Telegram. I don't have Telegram. I didn't know what it was. was like, Telegram, what are you talking about?
I said, can you send me a screenshot? I saw Chong Kim on the black hair. I said, that woman does not even look like me.
She carries a name Chong Kim. Some of the messages I saw on that screenshot, I told Eric, was like, have I asked you it my pretty?
He was like, oh, I thought that was odd. was like, if this is not a conversation, you're not used to it isn't me.
And even if, whatever crazy reason I ask you if I'm pretty, you verify that on our text message, not on signal and not on television.
He's like, got it. But he had no idea. And he said ever since I, this person sent him a link, he had to go to the Verizon store to get a manufactured reset on his phone.
Just to hate, because he said all of a sudden ever since he clicked on that link, and I saw what this person said.
It says, Eric, I need your help. Please click here. And so I decided to start posting on all my social media anytime you see any person post as a woman that says I'm being abused.
Can you help me? Please click here. Do not. They are fake. If you are that concerned, do not click on the link.
you. Just screenshot it and send it to CyberProd. And let them figure it out.
@12:08 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Yeah, what's that? mean, I know you know this stuff, but it's like there's there are rootkits that they can install on your phone that if you click a link that link will install it on your phone and all of a sudden your phone is completely hacked.
There's there know everything that you type into the phone they can do key logging they can get your bank account numbers all that stuff that all it takes is one creepy link and they will they will hack your stuff they'll hack your contact I mean like like you said this guy had your name happened to match this person's name well they could have easily gone to his Facebook and found all of his friends names and just started feeding one at a time people don't understand the the implications of these artificial intelligence these programmed bots that do this stuff this is
I'm not necessarily a person trying to take advantage of this is a machine, the machine that's going after millions of people at one time.
I had an experience of talking to a gang investigator and he was telling me that the cartels now have access to a lot of tools like this.
They have a paces and a few other intelligence level tools and they are hammering everybody's everything. If they want what they do is they basically they set the machine on you and if the machine gets finds out enough about you and they're like, oh this person is vulnerable and a good target then they assign a human to you.
And it's like they've got this down to a science and they have so much money that they will make off of you that it's unbelievable.
do not have a chance if you're very fairly painful. The friend of yours that knows your life experience, that he still wasn't paying attention.
What is it going to take to get people to wake up? I have friends that their Facebook gets hacked and people are cloning somebody else's Facebook thing.
I'll get a message from somebody I have no one to talk to. I'm like, okay, did you start a new Facebook account?
What the heck is the deal? I will text them and say, did you contact me? lot of times they didn't.
I have to report it and all that. This cybercrime stuff is out of control and no one has armor for this.
Who keeps their guard up all the time on everything? It is almost impossible. I mean, but it takes eternal vigilance.
What do you think that child is doing? Do you think that kid knows any of these advanced psychological tricks?
@14:52 – My Phone 김정란
No. No. They're kids. The other thing I want to specify to parents that are watching is There are some states, including Texas, at the age of 12 for boys.
If a robot or some stranger sends a nude picture of an underage girl and the boy does not embrace it in time, he can be charged as a sex offender, which in my opinion I find bullshit because boys are boys.
But I also believe that we need to investigate where this is coming from. It's different from a boy taking picture in a bathroom.
That's wrong. But if it's being given to him, we need to do a further investigation before we convict this child because he's still a child.
And here's another thing. And this is just my professional opinion. There are girls that do send in a program.
the of at pictures do other boys. They they I need to be held accountable as well. If you're going to hold boys accountable for holding pictures, you also need to hold girls accountable.
I'm not saying they need to be incarcerated. I think they both, both genders need to be educated, need to be sent to rehab or some type of class about what is online grooming because they may not know.
I don't think there should be any conviction, especially if there's that young, and depending on the severity the should able to be able to sure that
@17:13 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
김정란 is child sexual abuse material. If you forward that, that could be an international or an interstate, you know, c-sam violation, pornography.
I mean, like they're trying to get kids now for creation of pornography, creation of c-sam. I mean, because people are so uneducated about this, they don't know what's really going on.
It's hard to sit around and say, yeah, they're all guilty and they all need to go, you know, get rehab or whatever.
We have of this stuff and we have these children are running around with the ability to video. I was just reading an article yesterday about how they're mimicking having sex.
These are children that are under 10 that are watching pornography. They don't even know what's going on and they're acting it out with their clothes on in schools and teachers are just like, I don't know what it's supposed to do with this behavior.
We have not adequately prepared them or parents or anybody for the danger that the cell phones are bringing into their lives and the internet is bringing into their lives.
I am a freedom of speech person. am a hundred for it. thing is that people just don't know what they're doing.
It takes a lot of education. I took a class one time from this lady who was talking to a kid that weeks and weeks of research to prepare for this session that she was going to give.
is this great. I wish I could show it, but there was a survivor on there that decided they didn't want to have their face shown.
So all of a sudden now now all of this two hours working material I can't show. But the point I'm trying to make, and I apologize for the digression, was that it was so much information coming at me so fast.
And I am a relatively well-known a very good I couldn't even keep up. She was like, if have this program you need to do this.
If you have a place that you need to do this, need to be aware of this. you're using social media you need do this.
And it was just unbelievable. mean you're having to go through and do customer support basically on every single app that's different everywhere.
As a parent I mean there's no way you can keep up with all the apps that your kids are using or that your partner is even using it.
Jackie uses stuff.
@19:58 – My Phone 김정란
don't even know what the hell it is. I use VPN on my phone and I have my location in Switzerland.
It's not 100% but you know what, it's better than not having anything. And the other thing is I posted on social media, I said make sure when you step out of the house, turn your Bluetooth off.
People don't realize it. And someone asked me, they said, why? Because Bluetooth does not have any safety net. Anybody can Bluetooth through your phone.
So let me give you an example, because this actually happened. think it was in either Alabama or Arkansas. remember it started with an A.
There was a woman that went shopping. She had I'm read to you, all of a sudden she goes into her car and her car says your tires are low.
He gets out and she got bludgeoned. Wow. And was sent to the hospital. Her tires weren't low. hacked into her because now especially if you have newer cars, everyone wants the latest and greatest.
Now I believe it started in 2017-2018. Don't quote me on text, but I do know sometime in 2018 majority of the cars went completely computerized.
There are some cars that are still manual and others that were computerized. Once it's computerized, it is also capable.
They can turn off your car. They can turn on your car. They can, especially I remember even in later in the 2000s remember on Star.
They said, If now you can have it. What if I in your car, as long as you have Wi-Fi, it is tractable?
Your car, they can stop your car and you can be in the middle of the mountain, not being able to go anywhere.
These are things that people need to take seriously. It's not just about online grooming, it's scams, it's hacking. criminals are hijacking our lives.
And if we don't do anything about it, if we We don't stand up and say something needs to change.
Do you guys remember any of the state? It was with Will Smith and Gene Hackman. Even though it was a fictional film, I believe that they gave us a glimpse of the future if we're not careful.
Now that we've got webcams, now that we've got cameras on our laptop, on our phones, on our tablets, on our computer, that means they can accept.
And where now I'm from. You can in shopping service, selling camera covers.
@23:05 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
And they wanted to need camera covers you know exactly if we didn't meet Kim Kovell it wouldn't be an issue so apparently they're trying to tell us something you know exactly and so the grand blue tape is where I go everywhere with blue tape it's crazy and they also just passed they passed the law recently and I wish I knew if this was my main issue I'd have it at the tip of my tongue but they passed the law saying that all computers have to have kill switches in them now all cars have to have kill switches in them so they can be done activated by computers so not only has it already been in there and hackable and the government has the ability to do it and so does anybody else now they're making it a requirement so our vehicles will actually have kill switches in them so it's like we're you know even as a consumer it's like we don't
We don't have any control over what the heck is going on with this stuff. There's a guy that I follow, his name is Derek Brose, and he runs this thing called the Conscious Resistance Network, and his thing is how do you keep all this surveillance out of your life.
There's this concept of getting a phone to get a phone that is not connected to the surveillance network and not connected to everybody else's Internet.
They call it beat Googling. So they have to take if they go and they get a phone and then they have to be Google it and they uninstall all of the stuff That's just installed by default So that it's actually like not attached to it And then you have to every time you make a phone call you have to like connect to this network You have to do all of this rigmarole because these systems are in place and trying to avoid them is like a Lot of work.
@24:53 – My Phone 김정란
It's a lot of work.
@24:54 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
You know, there's absolutely I have I have lots of I have lots of fears for the future. You know, I really I really did
I mean, we need to teach people to avoid this stuff as a system and think about it. Look, that's dangerous.
Don't go there. I think that the more that somebody is in this field and the more they realize that children are being taken advantage of, you have to immediately take that same mindset and apply that to the elderly.
Your grandparents, your parents that are losing their memory, the fact that your parents, they have access to their bank accounts and they can all do it online, but maybe they're not thinking.
Maybe they see that message from you that says, I need help click here. And then it says, oh, I need $100 out of the bank.
Can you please send me the bank account numbers so I can get a wire? And all of a sudden, your parents' money is all gone.
And this is not a joke. I'm not an alarmist. In fact, that happened to one of our friends recently, someone that you and I have both owed.
parents had their bank account drain through a crypto scan. And it's like, I mean, this stuff is devastating and because they have these really, really, really smart hacker people doing this work and because those smart hackers are actually being labor traffic and when those people make money or don't make money, they are forced to recruit more people into the hacking scam.
It's like there is a cancer that is growing and is becoming successful because we have adults that are being tricked by And into this stuff, it's a more money is put into that.
So, what do they do? They hire more people or they bring more people in as labor trafficking victims and then they're scamming more people and it's called pig butchering.
It's the most unbelievable thing you've ever heard of. I've done tons of articles on it now and it's just like, it's a scary thing.
mean, we're having generational wealth stolen from families because of the fact Yeah. ANNOUNCER Pie Bihe zip p5h3e4megRaidt4ave8 김정란 not paying enough attention to every little thing, like even your friend, 저김정 says, click this link, okay, boom, I'll click that.
know, I haven't talked to my grandkid in a long time. It's unbelievable. And they're just taking advantage of our human vulnerabilities and our need for attention, affection and love, and our lack of time to go through and actually get educated on how to stay safe constantly.
@27:27 – My Phone 김정란
It's like, yeah, man, we're in a danger zone.
@27:33 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Yes. So what we're doing, and you and I, is we're working on ways to educate the world through entertainment projects, through educational projects, you know, through your movies and all of your work that you're doing in visual media and all the stuff that I'm doing with our online courses and the VR stuff.
And so I'm really excited that, you know, we're both trying to attack this from a visual media, right? 김정란, Well do you want to give this, do you want to try to get this headset thing started?
@28:06 – My Phone 김정란
Yes, I got my box.
@28:09 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Ah, yes you do, that's right.
@28:12 – My Phone 김정란
I love the box.
@28:15 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I am so happy with that thing. It came from this company. Yeah, there's your setup thing. Yep, we got that, I got that box from a company called, I can't think of a name right now but basically it let me completely customize all six sides.
I think I had to buy like 10 or 15, but they're like 20 bucks a piece.
@28:36 – My Phone 김정란
Those boxes.
@28:37 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Wow. The price is so reasonable and it advertises the actual product the whole time it's just sitting there. It's way back better.
@28:46 – My Phone 김정란
I love it. I guess this.
@28:49 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Those are from direct sound. Those are the best headphones. They actually customize them for us. They put those logos on the sides.
김정란, I can purchase those at a reduced rate and what's so good about those things is they are very large and they go over the head thing.
They are super, I know the wiring is little bit weird, you could, uh, you'll figure it out. Um, yeah so those things, they uh they go over the side, over the headset, they, they cup over your ears so it's real sanitary so you're not getting like you know the little ear, ear paws to put inside and they, they blind lock out all of the rest of the sound in the room.
So the idea here is that we're trying to create a sound isolation area so that someone can pay close attention to what's actually happening inside of the VR experience and we block out the rest of the world.
So for a user when they put the head, yeah, there you go.
@29:48 – My Phone 김정란
Okay, so.
@29:49 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
On my head. Well, what we're gonna do, the first thing is we're going to, so the, so the hit set, because this is a completely virtual VR 3D world experience, the headset.
It needs to be able to tell the app where it is in space so it has a… we have to calibrate.
So that they have a thing that's called the boundary or the guardian. So the first thing we're going to do is we're going to turn…
there's a button on the side, a little tiny thing.
@30:17 – My Phone 김정란
it down for about two or three seconds until the white light comes on. It's on!
@30:22 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Okay, perfect. So what it's going to do is it's going to boot up. So it's almost… think about it like there's a cell phone inside of yours.
So there's basically a cell phone. So it's going to take a little while to boot up.
@30:35 – My Phone 김정란
Okay, I need to put the headset on.
@30:38 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Not quite yet. So I'm going to talk to you about the files coming on. I've got mine turning on at the same time.
So what we're going to do is we're going to put this thing on. You don't do it right yet.
going put it on like a baseball cap so we're going pull the top over. Okay. I'm make sure that there are these little side velcro things.
@30:58 – My Phone 김정란
Do you see those little straps on the side?
@30:59 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Yes. 김정란요 yours is probably pulled as tight as it can be. However much hair you got, want to lose that little bit on either side.
And then big back strap will come out further. they stay on your head better. better.
@31:18 – My Phone 김정란
There.
@31:19 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Want it to be just tight enough so that it doesn't wiggle around when you move your head back.
@31:25 – My Phone 김정란
Okay. Wow.
@31:29 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
So you're looking, you should see like the world should be in black and white right now.
@31:33 – My Phone 김정란
Yes.
@31:34 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
And it says create boundary. Right. So what's, what you're doing is you're looking through these four, there's web cameras that are attached to the headset and seeing the world.
what we're going to do is give me a favor, take the headset off real fast.
@31:47 – My Phone 김정란
want to show you with your hands.
@31:51 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Under. So when you haven't headset on, right eye is rocker and it says it has a plus and a minus that's the volume.
So the volume up, the plus, is going to be your left mouse button. is the yes button. So when you hit the headset on, there's a little dot and whenever you hit the button on the little blue button, if you press the plus here, that's like saying yes.
So we're going to hit the back on, we're going to make some decisions with that button. So I've got my headset on along with you.
And you're going to see that thing that says create boundaries. I want you to do is kind of, you look over and look at the ground.
So instead of looking at ground, let's try and turn look at We're going go ahead and click create boundary.
Okay.
@32:57 – My Phone 김정란
It should look like there's some little plus.
@33:00 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Yeah! It says confirm floor level and let's go ahead and turn around and look back at me real quick.
@33:07 – My Phone 김정란
Okay.
@33:08 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Let's say confirm. Do you feel like the floor looks like where the floor is? Okay, yes. turn around and look at me and let's look and then click confirm.
I did. Then it says draw a room scale boundary. Go to the bottom and say switch to stationary boundary.
@33:28 – My Phone 김정란
Okay.
@33:28 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
And then you should see a blue circle on the ground. Yes. Alright, great. Now when you say confirm, it's going to take you to the main menu.
@33:39 – My Phone 김정란
Okay. Now it says no Wi-Fi. Do I need to connect to?
@33:44 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Ignore that. No, do not connect to Wi-Fi. Okay. you connect to Wi-Fi, it might update to OS. Okay. You could see a whole lot of things that you should be in a few of these.
No. Right. Yeah. This is the main menu. And if you look all around, you see I don't know, it's really fascinating inside of virtual reality.
Of course, this visual, this is the basic metaquest room or main menu and any of the am that you have is just going to replace what you're seeing.
So at the bottom of the screen you'll see a little bar and on the right there's a thing this is called app library it looks like a Rubik's feuds like nine little buttons.
Yes. Okay so click that.
@34:39 – My Phone 김정란
Okay.
@34:41 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
And that should pull up a thing called the app library. Yep. Okay at the top right there is a little filter menu and it might say all or it might say something else but if you click it there'll be a list of things at the bottom it says unknown sources.
@34:58 – My Phone 김정란
So this is trying to sort the apps that
@35:00 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
김정란, 김정란, OK, if you click on that, that's it. So what we're going to do is if you want to start the app, let's go ahead and start it.
So we're going to click on the page of the Art of Tech, and you'll see the logo from the app, and then it's going to drop you in a room with a yellow cube.
Do not look at the yellow cube, yeah. It's real hard not to. don't look at it. So, So you should see a thing that says, put the red dot on the yellow cube to begin.
@35:34 – My Phone 김정란
Yep.
@35:35 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Uh, is now, now this is what, this is the place where when you start someone in the app, this is where you want them to begin.
And so what you're trying, what you're teaching them to do is use the interface, which is putting the red dot on anything that's yellow like that.
@35:51 – My Phone 김정란
And, uh, do I do that now?
@35:53 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Well, not quite yet. want to put, I want to get the headphones on you. If, well, I mean, you don't have headphones.
So can you hear the voice? Yes. Okay, so if you want to put the headphones on, it will give you a really nice, clean experience, but you don't need them.
So you're in room by yourself so you can probably do it without the headphones. So when you look at the yellow cube that is when the app itself will start.
Lisa will start telling you her story and then you can figure it out from there. There are 57 different clues if you want to look at all of them.
But all you have to do is look at the ones that are yellow. There'll be grey clues as well and you'll figure it out when you go.
I don't think I'm just going to let you get started. And obviously if you have any questions or anything, just ask.
if anything makes you feel uncomfortable, just take the heads off. You So tell me where you are.
@37:08 – My Phone 김정란
I'm still outside and she's telling me about her neighborhood.
@37:14 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Oh, okay. Good. All right. I just couldn't hear her.
@37:16 – My Phone 김정란
Okay. Oh. This is so cool.
@37:26 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
The question I ask people is do you think the experience is better than a list of red flags. So this is sort of, this is the, I'm trying to, I'm trying to prove that we can do a better job of explaining how trafficking works.
So I'm going to let you go through the whole thing and I'll just be right here for you.
@37:44 – My Phone 김정란
Okay.
@1:00:00 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
김정란, Phone 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, My 김정란, My �씌있 맥, When other people finish it they can just set it down on the whole table and then somebody else can pick it back up so that it sort of reset the child.
@1:00:45 – My Phone 김정란
Does my phone hit this then?
@1:00:50 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
if you just barely touch it it will put us asleep. you hold it for about 7 seconds you'll hear a little, 김정, And that sound means that it moved on.
Ok can you go on a with me him get a movie, then Wow.
@1:01:33 – My Phone 김정란
Okay. I got a little confused because I thought the little yellow box when I saw the numbers that says four, three, I thought I was supposed to go in the numerical order.
Oh, I see. So I didn't realize that when it says four dash four, I was supposed to stay there till I started having to.
@1:02:00 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
How back to read and that's totally fine. Yeah. And that's, that's fine, because we, we, there's no way to mess it up.
There's is absolutely, that.
@1:02:10 – My Phone 김정란
it's true.
@1:02:11 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
any sort of, and the thing about, the thing about putting numbers on it is that many people just want to go through this thing as fast as possible, so they want to, they're like, what do I need to do?
It's like, okay, just do all of the yellow stuff. And so, if you want to go further, you can dig into the grey stuff.
So I've gone through a number of different interface ideas on how to make it easier. And so I just figured that since I know somebody's got to do all the yellow stuff, I'm not going to make a big deal out of it.
It's so complicated to tell somebody all these instructions before they start. So you're just like, okay. And you don't want to make the experience like stop you and take you completely out of everything.
But it sounds like you figured it out. Did it take long to figure out? were you just like, oh.
Oh wait, there's more story or how does that work out?
@1:03:03 – My Phone 김정란
I, at first I was trying to follow, and then I realized, I was like, okay, why did it keep spinning to the same room?
Because I went to see what the other room would take me. And then I went back to the box, and when it got done with one, it went to the next one.
@1:03:26 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
That's when I realized I was like, oh, I'm supposed to at that box. And I finished reading.
@1:03:32 – My Phone 김정란
I will have to say, being a survivor myself, even though I would never pimp out, but the behavior is very similar.
You know, she says, I have to do this. I have to do that. I have to make him happy.
I didn't want to say the name to do it away. But, you know, the only difference is that, you But, um, then
When you're on the high end versus street level, it's still the same. The violence and the control is just different people.
was a phrase that said, different cast, the same story. One of the things that I want to share with parents though is that when they get their child back, they are not the same.
And that was one of the things I felt when I would hear this little girl saying, I can't wait to go home, I can't wait to get back my childhood.
It's kind of one of those things, you know, even when I look at other kids and I think to myself, I will never know what it's like to
I think like a normal child because ever since I was raped at 3 it tarnished my perception of innocence.
So I don't know what innocence you post to think. And when I say that I want to be very specific.
When I was 3 I mean I don't remember how old I was when I was raped. My parents verified that because they said I was there from 3 to 6.
So knowing that he was a pedophile I'm not going to assume he waited. It wasn't like he was saying okay you know I'm going wait till she's 4 or 5.
Pedophiles don't care. And but the one thing I do remember my uncle said to me I was about 4 or 5 years old.
My uncle was in the Marines. He brought one of his Marine guys. They were both in a dress suit because they just came back from the military.
I remember seeing a guy who was very handsome and he was like sure so he leaned like this so I just kissed his cheek because we think oh little kids they just want to give a pack.
I grabbed his face, it turned his head around and stuck my tongue in his mouth because that's what I was talking about.
I remember my uncle grabbed me and sprayed me on my bottom and the only thing that came into my mind is was it I be wrong.
I didn't see that as being inappropriate because the babysitter did that to me and so I thought that was okay and same thing I remember I was in either first grade or something I brought
I remember teachers would get onto me and I got spanked. This was in the 80s but not one adult.
Ask me. Are you okay? Where did you find this? Who's been teaching you this? Had someone had intervened? You know, I don't know.
Maybe that would have changed but it didn't. And then… I remember I was itching down there because I was being sexually abused.
I was being raped. And I remember the teacher saw me itching. She grabbed my hand and slapped my hand and it says, no, no.
Nobody intervened and that was the issue. Nobody intervened. And people think now that we have resources and we have education.
People would be on it now. No, I'm not going say their name, but I had a friend of mine that reached out to me last year.
And she told me that her daughter, was in kindergarten, and this is in a nice, suburban, wealthy new community.
And she said that she saw her daughter itching her butt. And so she asked her, are you okay? So the daughter told the mother And was a boy that kept sticking his finger up her butt.
So I said, if you report it, she said, no, why? I kid you not. And I said, she needs help.
My daughter's fine. She's going to count them. But the boy, he needs help too.
@1:08:49 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Yeah, that's right. The boy is the problem. Not like the boy is the problem. The boy is, he's carried a problem.
And he needs somebody to I think can find out why he's doing that.
@1:09:03 – My Phone 김정란
Exactly. And she said, I already told the school they didn't want to do anything. I said, then you have to call the police.
And she said, you know what? was stupid of me to tell you I shouldn't have shared with you because I knew you would take it out of proportion.
That's what she said to me. But the same thing happened to me when I was a kid in the 80s.
This was 2022. It hasn't changed until people say something. It hasn't changed until people intervene and do something.
@1:09:35 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
That's a microcosm of this entire problem of trying to educate people. thing is that we need people to take action to change their lives and change their behavior.
And part of that life changing behavior is part of my friends here, but it's like it's It's calling bull.
Let's see… We went to the parents and we said, look, here's what's going on.
This is a big deal. This is what your daughter is doing. That behavior is aberrant in that she got, she learned that behavior from somebody somewhere.
And now she is basically creating pornography and now it is being distributed through your network. You are culpable for this.
We had to extricate ourselves from that family. There was nothing we could do. We told them, we told other people and we didn't know what else to do.
lost their minds. They absolutely lost it. I mean, and now I look back on it. I'm like, what really was my duty at that time?
What should I have actually done? Because we put our child's relationship with that other friend at risk, which meant that all of the other people in the friend network, they all were being talked to by that other person.
So we went and talked to some of those other parents of the friends. What you want you to know, this was happening, we told the parents, you should know because this kid has been infected by this mind worm that makes them think that that is the good thing and they were busy infecting everybody else.
I mean they were like, that child was performing sexual activities with other children at that age and you were just, and we were like, how are we going to deal with this?
So we're completely clueless as to what to do. Now I know lot better and I would have treated that entire situation differently, but I also know that if I had been doing that and my daughter knew that, she would have never told me.
So it's like, you know, when you become a mandatory reporter, people that know you're a mandatory reporter are not going to tell you certain things.
And so I have already been in the situation where I had, I've been told that there is a situation happening with some other friends of friends and they were just like, you're a mandatory reporter.
김정란, Phone 김정란, My My My My �rigger 김정란. working hours like oh this is I'm like, oh, I got it.
But do you think that is a tool that will help a child or an adult understand the grooming aspect of trafficking, the thing that seems to be so hard to convey to people?
And if so great, tell me why and if not, how can I make it better? Because this is a continual process.
This is not a, you know, I didn't just finish this thing and it's done. We're actually re-re-re-re-doing the script right now.
And so we have the opportunity to make, to make adjustments based on feedback from people like yourself, obviously.
@1:14:32 – My Phone 김정란
So tell me what you thought and, you know, okay, I will say, okay, I'm going to share the positive and then I'm going to share what my suggested feedback.
@1:14:43 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I want to hear it all. You're not going to hurt my feelings. The only thing I'm familiar with making this the best it was, it felt real.
@1:14:58 – My Phone 김정란
I forgot I was in my office. Probably, isn't it? Yes, and the, you know, the constant cellphone of him ping her.
You know, after a time it was, my phone, was like, wait, wait, you know, the whole time she was talking.
I loved the description of how she got traffic, how she got stuck, you know, and all that and she gave a brief explanation of how she got groomed.
And so, all All of that is great. I think this is a great tool to educate parents. And I like that she has this twist for thinking of weighing her childhood back.
She wish she would never met him. What her life would have been like if she was never tracking. Those are all positive.
I love it, love it, love it. Here would be my suggestion. I would like a little bit more visual in the house she got through.
김정란, Phone 김정란, 김정란, My 김정란, My 김정란, 김정란, My 김정란, My My 김정란, My � She Wasn't Because I was the Black Sheep in My Family.
Even Though I Was the Oldest But I Was the Black Sheep in My Family. My Parents Were Also Gl secrets, Why Can't You Be More Light So And So?
Why Can't You Be More Like This Person? You Know? And It Beats You Down Emotional And So That's One Aspect I Would Like To See?
Like How Does That Groom Start? Did It Just Start With Hey? Are You Okay? I'm going to talk to, you know, and then it leads into this love bombing stage.
Because some people don't know what is love bombing, how does that look like? You know, even though she described it, but I would like to see everyone else when they're watching this, they felt that love bombing as well, or they can have an idea of life.
Okay, now I see why he likes this guy, because he's like, oh my gosh, he's so beautiful, you know, so much potential, you know, things like that.
And then I would like to add, like even after she's rescued, and she goes back to her room, it doesn't feel the same.
You know, because like I said, there was a news article, it was like a couple years ago, the parents got their daughter back from being trafficked after three years, even with three years, even a month.
But it changes you. But the longer they stay, the more conditioned they become. And so when they got their daughter back, she ended up running away the same night.
They got her back. And they didn't understand. So they felt like I need to punish her. I need to ground her.
But these are all reinforcement that the traffickers are brainwashing your daughter. And guess what? you leave, parents are going to lock you down.
It's going to get worse. And when parents actually do this, And so I want parents to have that awareness that even if you get your child back, they're not the same.
And it's important. And I highly recommend that when you get your child back, everybody needs to go to counseling.
He needs to go to counseling for herself. But also the family Family dynamic. I think it needs to go to counting as well.
So that way you can understand her triggers, her trauma bond, what she's going through, and how you can, you know, do this psychological reversal and let her know we love you, here for you, you know, and let her know how valued she is.
You know, because apparently she went to find validation somewhere else that she wasn't getting at home. And that's where And I'm not saying that parents are bad.
I'm not saying that they're doing bad parenting. All it takes is for this.
@1:19:40 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Exactly. Your talking about a trauma bonding is a super complicated mind brainwashing basic. It really is. It's so complicated and it's so specialized that when you talk about it coming from trafficking, it's even more specialized.
Thank And there are not very many resources whatsoever for parents that have children that need to be reintegrated into their family.
And there's no resources for the parents to figure out how they're supposed to create the environment for their child to get reintegrated into their family.
The stage of the trafficking is like once the trafficker has brainwashed you, it turned you against the family, that, I mean, I hate to say broken, but that really breaks your brain and requires so much unlearning.
I mean, there's a phrase that they've said that they've used, I think it gets attributed to Mark Twain. It's like it's easier to fool a person than to convince them that they were fooled.
And so if you think that political beliefs are hard to convey, how do you think you're going to try to say that this person that says they love you, and there are visual and physical indicators that they did love you because they bought you stuff and they took you places and they were nice to you.
It's but that person was ultimately taking advantage of you. How do you think think that how long you think it's going to take to unbrainwash that person?
It might be impossible because the triggers and the things that we learn as human beings and the bonds that we build, that stuff is like deep in our core beliefs.
We're saying, yes, I'm going to be with this person. So it's very complicated. Very complicated. I put in a chat, the…
the link to the script, not the current script, but the script that's being rewritten right now. And so you'll see in that script, you'll see a lot of different things talking about the grooming that he did.
It talks a lot about sending pictures and how he was queued online and we talk a lot more about building up their relationship.
But the part that you're really interested in, which is that let's dig into the nitty gritty of the grooming, is something that…
I want to build as a separate product so somebody can go onto our website and basically scroll and look at those messages.
So there's a product being developed right now that will let us do that. And I can't talk about it, but that is definitely on my product roadmap.
want to make that so badly because it is what people need. They need examples of how grooming happens and they need to be able to read it.
So I want to know what you want I left some of that stuff out on purpose because it's what happens is people start to identify that exact situation with grooming and they're like, oh, well my kid is not a 14 year old girl who has an older brother who also has these problems, so my kid's safe.
And so it's like, I've got to take, I've got to pull out all of that. You notice that there's no mention of drugs.
Many traffickers get their, you know, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, It's as accessible as possible, not to try to stand.
But to try to make it so people don't trigger on this and say, well, I have a boy, so that couldn't happen to my kids.
@1:23:31 – My Phone 김정란
Oh yes he can.
@1:23:32 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
We talked yesterday about, like, I have a friend who says, my son is 6'6,.5 feet tall, he'll never be traffic.
And you're like, that's not how it works. And that's what's happening is in our minds, we build a model of the world and we just say, okay, well my model is I have a 6 foot shot son, he's this and this and if things don't match that model then it's not a threat.
So you, so and we do that because that's how we simplify our lives. Well, that's not I'm simple anymore.
@1:24:01 – My Phone 김정란
This doesn't work that way.
@1:24:02 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
This is psychological manipulation. This is extortion. This is blackmail. This is a psychological mind trap and brainwashing. So that's a lot of the, I don't want to make excuses.
oh, I didn't do it because of whatever. But I was told by psychologists that what happens is like if you saw picture, at least I thought you saw picture, know, a little blonde girl with pigtails.
That's 14 wearing a sunscreen. It's dress, whatever. If that was your view of who that was, when you put the VR headset on, you have to say, well, my son is black and he's 6′ tall.
This doesn't apply at all to me and you won't listen. So I tried to strip all that stuff out and make it just as bare bones as possible.
So anyway, I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to rationalize why it is the way it is. But that was designed that way, purposefully based on the feedback that I had gotten.
But I want to build all this other tools. and have one of my
@1:25:00 – My Phone 김정란
renegade video, tv adm.com Did you avoid return marketing when it comes to boys or girls, it can be an older woman for a young girl, you know, because I think women groom younger girls and younger boys, you know.
I'd sit you a link, it's called trust. Do you remember these comedy friends?
@1:25:50 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Yeah.
@1:25:52 – My Phone 김정란
Ross, the guy who played Ross together?
@1:25:55 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Ross, we're on break.
@1:25:57 – My Phone 김정란
Ross, that's right. Yeah, I know Ross. Yes. Ok, It's actually on the board in the state of Connecticut for rape crisis sinners.
And one of the things that he talked about is we never talk about the parents. We never talk about the family dynamic.
When we always see the victim, we always hear their stories, we always hear their pain. But what about the family?
How does it affect the rest of the family? So he did a movie called Track where 13-year-old girl is given a Now this was filmed in 2010, but it falls in line with online grooming because she meets this guy online that she thought was a teenage boy.
But because he's already groomed her, she's in love with him. She, after her parents say, okay, no cell phone, after night time, she's like, alright, she acts like she's asleep.
Then she's I'm to The father is played by Clive Owens and oh my gosh, from a father's perspective, he wonders, is it a coach?
Is it this guy? Is it that guy? Who is grooming my daughter? he's beating the F out of all these men at the school.
And then he tries to talk to his daughter, because this guy is a stranger, and his daughter actually kicks him.
The girl who played the daughter, she did a phenomenal, realistic view of how a lot of victims feel about the perpetrator, because it's still love bombing.
And she screamed and kicked her dad saying, don't even know him. He was descending for this guy. But it was her friend that called the police, and she hated her friend for a while.
@1:27:59 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
The girl The actress Liliana Liberato is an actress born in Calveston, TX. will watch this movie, is now on my list.
want to share with you, there's a there's a short that was done by a group in Houston. It's called Groon and it's like 50 years 20 minutes, I think it is, and it is phenomenal.
It is the best short piece I've ever seen on grooming. And I love this thing. I've talked to the lady that was behind it.
I've been trying to get her and the cast to do an interview. I'm supposed to, I'm going to put it in the chat here.
But I did a review of it and a play through and I did a whole bunch of expanding upon it.
But basically, this… this… This is to watch this stuff. It's really a massive thing. So anyway, we have to find ways to get this media in front of people.
I love that. I'm going to check out Schumers' work, so looks great.
@1:29:18 – My Phone 김정란
Yes, it was so phenomenal that he talked about the parents what they go through, how they feel helpless, you know, and, you know, I mean, me having to go through this, you know, when my son would come home, when he said he would, that spiked my anxiety.
And by the time he came home, I didn't know if I wanted to kill him or kiss him. Right.
@1:29:45 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I know, it's really scary. mean, it doesn't take long before, you know, your kids are not around, it freaks you out.
then you run all the scenarios, you know, and when they come in, you're like, okay, you're alive. Why? What happened to you… what occurred while you were not in the568 area?
That is a parent side and the question is should these help you prepare, and you should respond when someone inuggage Inspiration?
this And that's scary. It is super scary. It is. I want to go ahead.
@1:30:29 – My Phone 김정란
Oh, I'm sorry. just wanted to share when I because my son is now in his early twenties. So when he was a teenager, I had him go on the net smarts.
And I also when he's one time he said to me, he said, boys, don't get good. That mom is just girls.
So we went online together and we saw tons of reports of missing boys. I had him write it down and I asked him after he wrote it down, I had him tell me what did he learn out of his own words.
He told me and I said that's why I got you a flip phone while everyone else has a smartphone.
I said I know you need to reach me because at that time my husband was deployed, I acted as a single parent and so he needs to reach me.
So I got him a phone where I had the ability to block picture and video message. I didn't want any girls giving him access to any nudity.
I didn't want him to get in trouble. And I knew he wasn't going to listen to me, so I blocked it.
Now we can't do that. And it's ridiculous because even parents don't have that control.
@1:32:20 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
No, I mean, you have to buy your kid a specific phone. Dave always recommends the pen wheel. It's like, because that's the one that you type in exactly what numbers you want to be able to communicate with that phone.
There is no internet access. mean, there's no apps, etc. Because that's the only way that you can have that communication with your kid.
And we had the same thing. Like, we didn't buy our kid's smartphone. We… There were situations where we got them in, where they needed it.
needed to phone so that we could get a hold of them. They were going to travel. And so we were like, okay, what are we going to do?
And we figured, well, let's buy them a flip phone that has buy purchasable minutes. 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, and you're like, wait a minute, this only calls you and that's really about it.
That's right, you said you needed a phone, that's a phone, it does exactly what you need and they never even used it, ever.
They just refused to use it and I was like, okay, it just shows me that really what you guys want is the thing that everybody wants, which is stuff to do in your hand constantly, that's it, that's what they wanted.
And they said that all, I think I told you this already, this today, friends became addicted to social media and immediately and they didn't.
And I don't know what ultimately that is good or bad for the universe or whatever 김정란, Phone 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, My day.
That 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란,김정란, �eg you stuff to keep you engaged longer.
It's crazy the amount of manipulation and and social social I'm a professional manipulation that's happening through these applications and no one seems to care.
@1:36:07 – My Phone 김정란
Nope.
@1:36:08 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
They're brainwashed thinking that they're the masters of their universe and they're not. They're all being fooled by these apps that are programming the people to do the things that the apps wanted to do.
@1:36:19 – My Phone 김정란
Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, overall I have to say I'm impressed with the VR headset. I know I have 30 days.
@1:36:33 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Well, you can have as long as you need.
@1:36:35 – My Phone 김정란
you.
@1:36:37 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I put boundary on this thing just so that there's a boundary and, you know, many people keep these for far longer than 30 days.
I have a lady who's had, she's actually had hers. She's had a headset for almost a year. And so she's in Arkansas and she's going to become a licensee next month.
And so she's basically had it there looking at it, you know, I know I need to be using this thing, but her grand opportunity is coming and going and coming and going.
So she's like, okay, I'm going to finally make this happen. It appears it's going to occur for her. But I have, it really helps for somebody to know that they have a tool like this that they can use.
So we license the software to any group that wants to do this. Sometimes it's a school, university, a company or an individual.
So like we even have a licensee in California, she's an individual and she works with different groups. And so she has license and she takes the, she takes the thing to do trainings at the police department and women's shelters and places like that.
And so, you know, another thing that I don't promote necessarily because there's a million ways to slice this. But if a person is interested in ending trafficking and they get a license to our or
김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, are inexpensive ways to get these things used and we provide an online course for free so that you can actually just become your own self-sufficient business going and training people, get them in a room, get them on a cell phone, they can log into the course, they can start to get it.
And they can finish the All for the price of just the software license and you get updates and upgrades and there's new money.
I want this to not just be a tool that somebody can license, but this could be a business for someone.
If you can get people to show up to a location and do training, you should be able to charge people $100 a piece to get a two-hour course with an immersive training session easily.
I don't care how much somebody charges, but I'm saying that for people that really want You should be able to charge that and doing an in-person session with a person with the experience and the tools that we've already created to provide to you.
This could be an ongoing business so that someone can do that. You don't have to tell your own story.
You can tell what of your own story that you want to tell. We have survivors that train with a group called Uprising out of Wyoming.
They're one of our licensees that we started with life. 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, got to take its toll.
I don't think that's scalable. But now that they have introduced our VR training, that they have, that they can use if they want in a school setting, they put the kids through the VR thing.
And then when the kids take the headset off, that's when they can decide the survivor, they can decide if they want to share their story.
And they said that that has given them back so much of their own power, that it's going to help them last longer while they're doing this.
And I want to find a way to 鷔칄 Centre reached works because I think that what I understand from speaking to survivors that I've become friends with is a lot of times they can invite you to a conference and they don't get their flight comp they don't get paid to do the conference the thing is that the conference allows them the ability to find a way to monetize what they're doing so they wind up having to write books or whatever and so when they they paid it fly themselves to the conference and they go and they talk and they get all the trauma from that and then they have to try to make my
I'm like, that is hard. That is hard stuff. We can provide people the ability that they can make some money on the side with their experience.
So anyway, mama-blah.
@1:42:16 – My Phone 김정란
I would love to take this to, you know, because I just got done with my short and I'm planning to do a fundraising either late October or early November and I'm going to speak in Las Vegas.
And I would love to tell people about this. Do you have any screenshots? Do you have any screenshots of some of the rooms that we can share on our website, the E40S, that way they can learn more about this.
And that way we can also advertise if anybody wants license. 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, I can tell them it's phenomenal.
If you don't want to rehash and tell your story, you can utilize this, especially for survivors, you know.
@1:43:28 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I'll show you a video before I post it. Yeah, and that's great. So yeah, I put in the chat, there's a digital media downloads page on reeffares.org that has high res screenshots, pictures, pictures, pictures, pictures, kinds of things that you can use, you can use all of it.
Right now, if someone's someone is interested in this resource, there's an online version of the script that people can use, they can print it out and they can share it with people.
There's an online video that goes through the entire experience of someone No one wants to watch it, so that's all free.
So there's no need for anyone to have, for many that information have to get the full immersive experience. the script is online, is on online and other Visiting are online, are online, lots, and things areBBilles What we have found is that when it comes to people that go to live human trafficking awareness events, even like their Christmas events or things like that here in town or here in Austin, we actually have performed at Operation Underground Railroad fundraisers for a number of central Texas groups.
So we go to the event, we set up in a corner, and the donors are like, what's this? We're like, we're going to teach you how brooming happens and people can anybody can get tricked into this.
And they're like, what are you talking about? It changes their interest. 김정란, 김정란, 낄김에제, 낄김제, 낄김제. They're called Prevent Human Trafficking.
They work with a group that tries to help entirely. They send people over there to understand what's really going on with the boats and the seafood processing and everything else, the sex trafficking, etc.
They had their 19th anniversary. We actually went to Washington and we put our heads at our VR thing ready.
And some of the donors walked over. It an older guy. And to get to be in this place, they really needed to be super into this nonprofit.
They had to physically find this location that was in middle of Washington, DC. They had to make time out of a lot.
So this guy is already there. He's already a donor. He walks over and he looks at the screenshot and he sees an American suburb.
And he goes, he goes, huh, that looks like America. And I was like, yes, this is happening in America.
He's like, human trafficking is happening in America. And I'm like, you are donating thousands of dollars to this nonprofit called Prevent Human Trafficking.
And you only think this is happening other places. How have we failed to educate you? And I was like, would you like to, would you like to see what it, what it's like, you know, try it and he's like, no, I, I didn't even know this was happening in America.
And I'm like, wow. So We got a lot of work. 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, a few minutes nonstop in a loud lobby where everybody is vying for your attention, you put that headset on and just like you said, you forget you're in your office, these people forget that they're standing in a very busy lobby, like I even have pictures of us doing this at Tony Robbins birthday party that he did to raise money for Operation Underground Railroad.
So there's like a ton of people standing around and we've got these headsets on all of these people and it's pretty crazy but they change the way they feel about this problem because they're having that emotional connection and they develop a relationship with Lisa.
We found that people need a connection emotionally to 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, and want to have that empathetic connection.
It doesn't mean anything until, you know, like when you're playing poker, it doesn't mean anything until you've got money and you bought the chips with cash.
It's just fun and games until there's cash involved and all of a sudden you're serious and that's pretty much what it takes to get somebody to care about trafficking and this app gives you the ability to have a person you can care about and see it in that situation.
@1:48:32 – My Phone 김정란
Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm impressed. I will definitely say I am very, very impressed and like I said, the only suggestion I would have is the earlier signs of grooming.
How does it take place? And then also the aftermath when she goes home, it doesn't look the same, you know, because I know, I even have other
I rescued and they will call me not even a week after their home. They'll say, I want to call him.
I miss him. Even though I was the one that put him behind bars, there are good moments we had.
@1:49:19 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
It's trauma- I'm not bummed. Yes, it is. It's so funny that you say that because it's almost like an addiction to alcohol.
You need to have somebody to call and go, I'm thinking about drinking or I'm thinking about using. I'm thinking about this.
I'm thinking about calling the guy because it's like, no, you're addicted to the fantasy of that person that they have created for you.
And it's like, yeah, know, but he does buy me things and I can go out to eat. My parents will let me leave my house.
And so it's like, God, and I talk to a lot of people that do rescues or restorations or whatever the right word is for it.
Once you put these people, these victims, through the system, where they're trying to get food stamps or HUD housing or whatever, it is so complicated to survive that it's just easier to just go back.
I'm going back from my head, you know. Yeah. I mean, I know what I have to do for it and yes, it sucks.
But, you know, I eat well. Or I have clothing or my child is actually taking care of the some degree by the…
other people that have… I mean, it's like the addiction is… Sometimes it's a reaction to the environment that you're in.
You're like, well, no, it's actually… That actually, when you weigh it all out, maybe that's better. And that's why so many people get trapped into bad relationships and abusive relationships.
You know, it doesn't have to be trafficking for trauma bonding to be real and it doesn't have to be trafficking for coercion to wind up living with someone because they feed you and get you medicine and they have health care.
You know, it's like you… I have friends that…
@1:51:14 – My Phone 김정란
김정란, My Phone 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, My � Chasing 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, My Phone 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, My 김정란, A
So 1997, I sold myself. I knew at that moment I was not going to take him up and sweep the floor of any fast food restaurant.
That was my thing back in the day. was like, for me not having a high school diploma, no college degree.
I had no skill set to work in any good job. And if I was making this much, don't Then my email told versus two dollars an hour, I was like, no, you know, in that support that a lot of people didn't understand back then.
And because I remember even my Christian friends, they're like, we'll help you get a job. And I would tell them, well, they had to paint you this much an hour and they're like, there's no job that won't pay you that much.
I don't even know, because even back in late 90s when I was selling myself. I would make anywhere between $200 to $500 an hour.
Now, that did not mean it was a 40-hour work. But still, it was a lot of money. But I also had to buy cocaine.
I had to buy alcohol. I had to buy expensive clothes in order to get that type of value. That's what I felt.
But inside, I was constantly suicidal. I was constantly dating guys. I knew were toxic for me, but it was familiar to me.
All the guys that were good to me, I thought they were boring. Because they were healthy. They were safe.
didn't want safe. And when I look back on it, I'm like, what the heck was I thinking? know. And that's because I've healed from that.
back then, And that was having an accident. I'm was I remember the therapist said to me, even in my late 20s, she said, Chong, you need to find a healthy man.
I took that literally. I started going to the gym. wouldn't need to find a man that was built. didn't know what healthy meant until I got older, until I started going through therapy and everything.
That's when I started learning the word healthy. Because when I thought healthy I said, I was like, right. I said, that's what I thought.
These are things that even the survivor is having a heart and breathy. Even though I had quit my narcotics in 2001, but guess what?
ongoing, even though I didn't per se still myself, but I had lines of sugar daddies all the way up to my mid to my early 30s.
@1:54:59 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I watched a I watched a piece the other day about this guy that he met a survivor out of Las Vegas and she basically walked him through.
This is what happens in Vegas. So there's just an entire day of them walking around and she is telling him, I mean, just unbelievable like fact after fact after fact after fact and what it was like for her and what it was like for the other people that she worked with.
And it is making money like that is so lucrative. And your perspective of what money means is totally different and when you're that young and you're like, but if I work over here for two hours I can make all the money that you made an entire week working at an oil factory.
So it's like, um, so it's, yeah, how do you, how do you square that, you know, you're like, I don't know.
I mean, I come from a chemical plant basically. I watch lot of people go into that chemical plant and not come back out, you know.
And like they, they gave You can make a whole lot of money for a little bit of time. That exchange can be very difficult to say no to.
people, if they don't know how this is going to injure them psychologically, they don't realize what it is they're getting into.
Like, if you go to work in a plant, know, well, I'm probably going to catch cancer and I might die and this thing and this machine is dangerous.
You know, it's like, and people when you're at the job, they tell you this kind of thing. But you know, when somebody is out being manipulated psychologically and they're being used physically like, you know, somebody that's a victim of trafficking, that is just got to, and there's nobody warning you that this is going to last the rest of your life and you're going to be screwed up.
This tough, God.
@1:57:02 – My Phone 김정란
And now the law of survivors end up being over-timers. Some of them end up being killed. That's why we always say our lifespan is actually seven years if we don't get the adequate healing, the rescue, the proper care.
And that's why I think when we find survivors that are being charged for murder, for killing their traffickers. Where is their defense?
When the prosecutor says, well, we have to charge her for murder because he was asleep. Well, that's the only time she can get out because he's been beating on her.
Where was her defense? When he failed? Hey, I gotta tell you. I hear you.
@1:57:49 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
And part of the thing is that the people that are making those laws and the people that are in the jury selection boxes and the people that are in the process of trying to figure out what does all that mean.
It's like, right? I don't understand the grooming aspect. don't understand the psychological stuff. That's why I feel so strongly that creation of this VR thing gives you a completely, you know, a way to teach you.
put this on. Okay, 20 minutes later. Okay, now let's talk about trauma bonding. It's like there's no, there are no decent courses on trauma bonding.
@1:58:21 – My Phone 김정란
Nothing.
@1:58:22 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
And it's like we need to find ways that we can educate these people so they can get the right perspective.
@1:58:27 – My Phone 김정란
And I don't know who it is.
@1:58:28 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Anyway, I, uh, I feel like there are, there are tools that are missing in our general overall tool locks in this field.
And I'm hoping that VR, you know, experience is something that people can see benefit for. And we can, like you were, like you're saying, you know, do to be really great if we went for boys or if we had one for a day or have one for transsexual or trans whatever or anything.
We have Native American groups that really want customized ones that are, that are custom-toed They're, they're,issa. They're background, they're religion, they're location, they're history, they're heroes, they're everything and we need that stuff.
need representation for all of these vulnerable groups. And you went through the experience, you know that I could change the script, I could change the dialogue, I could change the location.
So the only thing stopping us now is money and time. You know, I proved that I can make somebody understand this and then I can tell a story in this way.
And I'm proving that we can make adjustments and change it over time. I just need people with the vision to see where this could go and somebody that wants to write a check.
I can put the experts together, we can do this. It's an entertainment product. know, it's just now that somebody can see the pieces are all there.
You know, and I shared with you that not only are we just updating the script to include some more stuff about social media and sharing it.
I'm 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, and thing, we're going to tell the story about a young girl who's bought over from the country, on a work visa, who comes a domestic worker, turns out that the person takes their passport away and forces them to work more hours for less pay, we're going to see what labor trafficking looks like.
And so once I have a sex trafficking and labor trafficking thing, even using the same environment, the same virtual environment, I think people are going to start seeing, oh, but I could write, we could write things could this about a blank for this in this situation.
eventually what they're going to see is this, what I want to do is I want to make a set of tools that make it easy for high schools and universities to build their own stories.
The minute those stories to approval people so that those can be shared on a network of people that want to use this program.
So it's like, oh, do you have one for the Chippewaakri? Yes, you do. Do you have one for a two-spirit?
Yes, we do. It's like, all of these things can be built. It just requires experts to make sure that the script connects with the right things and that we basically can.
We keep reviewing them.
@2:01:28 – My Phone 김정란
So I want to create an entire distribution network.
@2:01:33 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I want to create very specific scenarios that are very specific to specific needs and specific cultures. All of this is accomplished with time and money.
If I had the right person, I could show them exactly how I want to do it. I've done this stuff before.
I've created tools where people can build their own things and play along with them and submit them. I mean, this is not rocket science.
김정란, just requires money and there are no big grants that are out there that say, hey, can you make this one thing, because nobody is ever paying attention.
They're busy saying, I'm going to give you $500,000 to figure out how to teach people about human trafficking in our state.
I'm like, they want to start working groups to come up with plans and I'm like, dude, I have an implementable thing right now, but I don't meet any grant requirements.
So I mean, I need to somebody that's got some vision that can see where this can go.
@2:02:35 – My Phone 김정란
I mean, and one of the things that I think are collaboration, especially with E 40 S, you know, because in the indie films that we're trying to fund raise, we have indigenous, we have a personal color, we have different people of all different backgrounds and cultures.
And with this VR, we can collaborate to. The film is say okay who wants to learn how to stop this, here's a VR.
You know we can put this ON. can teach you, you know things like that, we can do tons of conferences on her own, we just need someone to host that.
So that way we can make it phenomenal, you know. Right now, you are more than welcome to use the short film to do the fundraising and to awful let them know.
And feel free to share this podcast and say, hey, I've got two thumbs up from a survivor. You know, I've got other survivors that love this.
You know, this is great.
@2:03:41 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I think one of the best things about our partnership and our collaboration is that people should know that we have the ability to change and adapt this stuff based on feedback from people with experience.
And I want to ask that it's so critical because I see things where I'm not It comes out, something comes out and you're like, well, it's got a flaw in it and therefore it's useless.
And I'm like, what? Is there a spelling error? What is it? know, I will fix those things and we will get it in there.
I plan on not just having everything reviewed by people before it gets finished but having it reviewed by people while I out there and if they have issues we will make adjustments and we will ship out a new version of people.
The concept of, well, it's not what I want it to be. Therefore, it's not. It's like, okay, well, tell me what I need to put in it and we will add some more stuff.
I really want to include the things that you're talking about which is more about the grooming. How does that happen?
Show different perspectives of that. I want to be able to look at Lisa's social media scroll. Like what's on her Instagram?
What's on her Facebook? What's on this? want to look at it. know, we, I've got, you're familiar with the chat GPT.
So you've got these large language learning models and you can literally type in and have it. Talk to you.
I've actually designed one of those things so you can actually go through some of my materials. So I did a bunch of research on familial trafficking and I put all that stuff in an L1LM and I could ask you a question.
There's no reason that I can't have Lisa as a concept, have all put all Lisa's information into an L1LM and you can actually talk to her.
The trouble with that is you have to write these guardrails that are very complicated so that a child that would be chatting with Lisa doesn't get something untoward out of it.
So it's like we've got lots of opportunities of ways that we can convey this information and I want to do it all.
@2:05:41 – My Phone 김정란
I would love to do a VR with you about Grovers. How do they grow? How do they target?
@2:05:52 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I would love to help you on that because I've been around with the flip track. What I learned from my industrial training design group is the first thing you start off with is a set of learning objectives.
What do I want somebody to be able to answer a question and make an answer in a test? These are all the things that need to be entered.
What are the learning objectives? Then you just write a script that includes all those learning objectives. What I started with was I looked at the top 10 nonprofits and groups that were fighting trafficking and I took all of their lists of red flags and risk factors and I forced ranked them and I was like okay which ones are in all of them?
Which ones are in some of them and which ones are barely covered? I wrote the script so that every one of those red flags and vulnerabilities and risk factors are included in the script itself or the scenario or the choices that you get to make.
So that's really what everything starts with. What's the learning? Absolutely. What do you want to put in somebody's brain and then you write that you've designed the story around that?
And we can absolutely do all of it.
@2:07:13 – My Phone 김정란
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yep. I want to show male grooming and female grooming because people think it's all male and that's not necessarily true.
Our woman groom, she uses her femininity. I mean, been groomed by both and I even had friends that when I was in a vulnerable situation, they would pit me out.
They would say, oh, I know a guy that, you know, he likes Asians and I'm like, you're pimping me out?
And they're like, well, I thought you wanted some extra money. That's why I asked you if you could help me out.
@2:07:54 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I didn't mean to be pimp. A tip to a customer. think I need you to help me out.
@2:08:00 – My Phone 김정란
Yeah. I love this. I really enjoyed the VR headset. Now that I have the visual and I understand it, I'm definitely going to be promoting it.
I didn't want to per month or focus.
@2:08:30 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I like to play with it.
@2:08:32 – My Phone 김정란
I respect that.
@2:08:35 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I wouldn't want you to go out there and talk about some of my product that you didn't actually understand.
I'm glad you didn't. But the thing is that when as a marketing tool, when your short comes out or when your feature comes out, or your series comes out, we can do branding.
We can tweak the story. I mean, we could make it so that Lisa is actually part of a different person.
There's so many things that we can do with it.
@2:09:07 – My Phone 김정란
It's just a vessel, right?
@2:09:10 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
It's a vessel. And somebody that was a backer of your program, it would be really simple to explain to them.
Okay, you just went through this thing 20 minutes with Lisa, now you understand how would you like to get to meet so-and-so who's in E40S.
And so it's like, oh, wow, you could do that? Yeah, this is the idea. We would do this and this and it's going to cost us much money.
know, do you interested in supporting that? And if they say, yes, great. And if they don't, it's like, look, we're using this to promote training and education and understanding.
Exactly. These creations, this content that we make, know, is meant to educate people and entertain them. But this VR thing is something that can get them to really,
I want to take a course on this stuff. They need an emotional connection with a human being that has had this happen to them.
That just seems to be the case. After every course I've ever taken, every seminar I've been to, it's got to have that connection with the material.
@2:10:19 – My Phone 김정란
Yep, and I will say I've been to so many conferences where I fall asleep. I'll be honest, when people tell me, oh guess what, there's another conference.
Nope, I'm not going because there's nothing that they taught me that I haven't known that I actually know more than they do.
You know, something has to catch me and I can very well see this being a phenomenal conference because then I can see people mind up, waiting to put their headset on.
@2:11:14 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
김정란, 김정란, 김정란, trainers are the one that wanted and then they have to go physically grab their executive director and bring their executive director over there and try to sell it to the executive director.
They're like, look, this is going to help me do my job better. And the executive directors aren't necessarily even interested in putting the headset on or hearing anything about it.
They're like, no, I already know how we're solving this problem.
@2:11:46 – My Phone 김정란
So I've got trainers that are fighting for this thing.
@2:11:50 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
now I've got the early things. get those trainers, the headsets, so they can just take the headset around and show everybody until they can get somebody to raise the money so we can get them software and hardware.
Absolutely. We're overwhelmed at trafficking conferences and then when we go to public conferences, you can see people walking towards the booth and they see VR and they're like, oh cool and then they might look up and if it says human trafficking, you can see them turn away.
It's like they don't. But the ones that do come up, parents, educators, people that are trainers, I had people from the Department of Transportation and people from the Women's and Children Program.
It's the last event that we went to. Public events are really weird. Kids want to use the VR so they come running over and we're like, are your parents here?
And they have to get their parents and we talk to the parents about it and have the parents are okay with it and the other half are like wary.
And we explain here's a video. But yeah, there's some of them that are not interested, not going to do anything.
But the people that it makes a connection with, it changes their lives because they… I've never had this kind of connection to the material before.
@2:13:04 – My Phone 김정란
And that's what they need.
@2:13:05 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
We have to bring it to them and make it come to life in a way that gives them emotional connections to the material.
You probably noticed a lot of the tricks that we were doing inside of there to generate emotion. So like when you go to Lisa's condo, the door is shut.
She can't leave. It's raining outside. The music is to the food. There's a place where if you stand next to the television, you can hear people in the other room that are yelling at each other and fighting.
And so it's like, I'm trying to create this emotional tension. And when you go to her kid's room, So you're like, oh, this is where I was a kid.
It's like the music is lighter. It's more, you know, it's more major. It has a little minor theme in there pretty often.
But it's bright outside. It's daytime. You know, lots of very bright. Right. 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, I had freedom as a child, but I blew it because I ran off and got tricked by this guy and they come back and we're trying to build this thing so people can have a connection.
So we're hitting on everything. And then at the end where it's time to leave, if this thing is over with these guys pounding on texting and texting and texting and texting and it's like it's supposed to make you feel, oh my gosh, I got to hurry up.
I'm in control. This guy's in control of me. And if it did that, maybe we have a chance to reach out.
Absolutely.
@2:14:51 – My Phone 김정란
love that you added the teddy bear because when I explained to people in my earlier years of dating,
After trafficking, men would buy me teddy bears and I would be head them. And they were like, what the hell happened?
HIGHLIGHT: My discusses how certain objects and environments trigger traumatic memories from their past. – WATCH
You know, they didn't understand. I didn't realize it was a trigger until I got older. And then it explained because I, as these men would get mad at me, they're like, you need to learn to appreciate, you need to learn.
And it would compound my trigger even more. It would make me say, no, I don't have to appreciate anything you gave me.
I don't have to appreciate because to me, I saw that as transaction. I didn't see that as something in doing because I always felt like, if you care about me, quit buying me cliche.
Yes. Find out what I like. I never once said I like teddy bears. I never once said I like flowers.
like poetry. like journal books. I like colored pens. If you care about me, research. I'm going to go to Lowe's and look for craft news stuff.
It's that simple. I love that you added that, Teddy Bear. I felt that familiarity when I was watching the VR.
also did condo. What it made me feel is very adult-like. It didn't feel like it It made me feel like I got to dress up.
got to put makeup on. I got to be an adult, not a child, not a youth, not a kid.
It didn't feel happy. A lot of the men that bought me, they had nice luxurious homes. My girlfriends get shocked when they ask me, and I'm like, oh, when you make your millions off your millions.
I'm like, no. And they're like, oh, I don't like marble floors. It reminds me of how many times I got slammed on there and being raped.
I don't like houses where I am lost and I don't know how to get out. I'm going to have a panic attack.
You know, I like little cozy home. You know, that's just me. I've never been a luxury type of person.
And I'm actually grateful for that. And I'm not saying it's wrong to want luxury things. But for me, those were triggers.
@2:17:38 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Well, you know, it's just another example of how people money does not make you a normal regular healthy person.
@2:17:48 – My Phone 김정란
You know, it does it.
@2:17:49 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Absolutely. Yeah. mean, and what's going to be important for you is probably something that makes you feel confident that you can last for a long
@2:18:18 – My Phone 김정란
I don't want him work hard for his own, but in case we have another pain damage, I don't want him relying on the government, no offense.
But I want him to learn how to build his own wealth as well and not have to rely, because one is the biggest trap on any type of extortion, trafficking, a piece of relationship is when someone holds what you owe above your head.
Like I bought you dinner, you owe me something. I did something nice to you, you owe me something. I don't like the word borrow.
If I gave it to you, it's yours. I don't expect a payback.
@2:19:37 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I don't word word borrow. like the word the the word I like the word I word borrow. the word Other kids get shocked.
This, so. the product so that we can find a donor to help them get the product. So while my fantasy, obviously, would be to solve this problem for somebody that can write their own check and all that stuff, that's not doing the big mission, which is trying to be as accessible as possible to anybody.
So if I can find someone that's interested and will use this program, somebody that wants to try it or is ready for it, I need to find them.
So I would like to, if I do the trip to Portland, I want to go to Portland and do an event with that group, teach their people, I can bring a bunch of my own headsets.
김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, 김정란, and it's from using this tool or have the ability to use.
It doesn't matter if you don't have an answer now or anything, but that's the thought process that I'm looking for.
I'm looking for somebody that will actually use it. Who is that person? And it usually takes a very special champion to even get a person to show up at their school with a PowerPoint.
I mean, it takes a lot of work, and I have tons of evidence to support that. So if you happen to know anybody that is interested, let us know.
will find a donor. We will find a way that can happen. But I I just think that finding a person that's really interested in this and being what is it that people keep saying, you're the best kept secret in human trafficking prevention education.
I'm like, I don't want to be a secret. I don't want to be a secret.
@2:22:13 – My Phone 김정란
I want everybody to have access.
@2:22:14 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I'm not trying to keep it away from anybody. I'm doing everything I can to make it available for free.
I'm doing everything I can to get it to people for free while still keeping my life free. So I need help finding those champions.
@2:22:29 – My Phone 김정란
So if you… I know too, but they're not in those locations. know too, but they're not in those locations.
of them is actually out in San Antonio and we're the ones in Florida.
@2:22:41 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I told them about the VR.
@2:22:43 – My Phone 김정란
They're excited. They want to learn. But I can definitely act around to my friends.
@2:22:48 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I know in Chicago and also in Portland. What is location in Florida? city do you know?
@2:22:56 – My Phone 김정란
I just know they are an hour north of Miami. I do have her number and her website, so I'll send back to you.
@2:23:04 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
That's perfect, because I have a licensee, I have two licensees in Florida. One is a guy named Andreas, and he runs a soccer team called Patufo's Angels, which is Smurf's Angels.
The idea is that when they do a match, he raises awareness of even traffic. He has two heads set, and this guy takes them everywhere.
He's at the grocery store and sends me a picture, look, got somebody drawing it. He's so motivated, and then we have Sala Freedom, which is a group out of Florida.
They have a survivor, Hilda Ariola, and she actually goes out and she implements this in schools. So it's possible that your friends might be close enough to one of those different groups, and we can just get them together.
And they can ask them what's In this case, we're with all the extra headsets that I'm bringing along with me, and they can get an extra benefit out of that license plan.
So that's the rationale for thinking about Portland. And I can just send headsets to San Antonio and make that work too.
@2:24:45 – My Phone 김정란
So we're all good at Yeah. Yes, I am definitely going to advertise this on the homepage of e40s.net. And then I'm going to take picture of the headset.
The ear thing I'm going to, once I take the picture, then I'm going to put reef cares at the bottom and say, hey, who wants to try a headset to educate the public about human trafficking?
I'm going to use videos you send free, that way they get a little glimpse of what it's like, and that way it'll drive the market to that website.
@2:25:29 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
So, when you're doing all of that stuff, and you're like, I wish I had a blank, you're like, oh, if I only had a blank, just text me.
I'm sure I have it. I'm sure I can send it over to you really easily.
This problem is so complicated, and the technology is so new, and very few people understand anything about grooming. So, I've created lots of different materials.
HIGHLIGHT: My plans to use pictures and videos to promote a headset for educating about human trafficking. – WATCH
so, I mean, I've got whatever you need, I'm sure.
@2:26:07 – My Phone 김정란
I'm here to solve all those problems for you, so when you encounter those problems, let me know. Absolutely. I love it, though.
@2:26:17 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
I love it.
@2:26:17 – My Phone 김정란
POSITIVE FEEDBACK: My expresses satisfaction with a prevention tool and rates it highly. – WATCH
For now, it's a great tool for prevention, because at least we're not throwing everything all at once, but we're giving them the glance of the prevention part and let them understand.
So overall, I definitely give it an A plus plus.
@2:26:37 – Billy Joe Cain @ PBJLearning.com (pbjlearning.com)
Awesome. Well, hey, I appreciate you spending all of this time with me today. You're welcome. Thanks for having me.
I think I got to go check in on Jackie and get some food in me and all that stuff that I got to meet and coming up.
I've reached, Sean, thank you so much for being a friend, for being a colleague, for being an activist, and for all of your efforts that you're working on.
@2:27:30 – My Phone 김정란
Okay.
ABOUT CHONG KIM
Chong Kim is an Asian American Survivor of Human Trafficking and Child Sex Exploitation, a harrowing experience recounted in the 2012 film, Eden.
Now a dedicated human and civil rights advocate, Kim works tirelessly to educate others on how to keep their families and communities safe. Working alongside those who are striving to end slavery and injustice, she empowers victims and survivors alike. In 2014, Kim was honored by My Sister's Voice as one of the top 40 women who inspire the world.
Dedicated to finding a solution to end human trafficking, as well as educating audiences about bullying. Kim offers deep insights into domestic violence, undocumented persons who are victims of crime, consulting and education on the dynamics of trafficking and start up procedures for charities. Through speaking and shares her personal experiences, she continues to keep those who need a voice and works to prevent such crimes from happening to other children.
She is also an advisor to PBJ Learning and Radical Empathy.
ABOUT PBJ LEARNING
PBJ Learning is a leading provider of online human trafficking training, focusing on awareness and prevention education. Their interactive Human Trafficking Essentials online course is used worldwide to educate professionals and individuals how to recognize human trafficking and how to respond to potential victims. Learn on any web browser (even your mobile phone) at any time.
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